By TAO
I have hesitated posting this for several days, but I have decided to go ahead because I think it is something I need to say. Something has bothered me but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was, but first let me take a step back putting the concern on ethical adoptions for only those who truly need adoption aside for the moment…
We are all defined in some way by how we were raised, our values, our belief systems, whether by keeping them, modifying them in some way, or dismissing them outright. I have for the most part kept mine the same, albeit a few differences. My parents strongly believed in living a life to serve and help others, whatever service or help they could offer to a person or group. They were/are living examples of what they believed in every single day of their life, not just one day a week, or at conferences, every single waking hour in some way, big or small, they served others first and at a cost to themselves.
Yet, adopting us was not part of that service to others. They adopted because they wanted to be parents. They did not adopt us to convert us, or bring the word of God to us because their ministry said that is what they needed to do. They adopted us to have a family, be a family. Their only motive to adopt was to be parents – no other reason, no rescue meme, not to convert us, just to be the best parents they could to their children.
To me, I see a distinct difference between my parents motives, and what I see in the many blogs, articles, talk in the wider communities of those in the orphan ministries. It isn’t about their faith, or how they believe the Bible tells them their primary service / mission is to care for the orphans via adopting, how they were called to adopt because God adopted them that bothers me deep down. People have interpreted the scriptures in so many different ways – just look at how many different religions exist. It’s not even about the attitude in some such as that it really doesn’t matter if there were discrepancies (large or small) in the adoptions, or, that all that matters is the child will benefit by being taught about Jesus, or how adoption was God’s Plan A for that child. Everyone has the right to their opinion or belief.
It’s about the fact that some who follow the orphan ministries never mention in their long rebuttal comments, or their blog posts – that first, they just wanted to be parents, and then they chose to become parents via adoption, then determined what type of adoption. That fact whether it is real, or simply an omission, bothers me more than anything else said, or believed, because I think that desire to parent has to be there first, before the route to parenthood is considered, especially in adoption. I do believe some, hopefully most parents, regardless of what motivated them choose adoption, will be great parents to their adopted child or children, true families in the deepest meaning of the word. Others won’t be with impacts to the child from mild right through to those cases where the child suffers extreme levels of abuse. These are the ones I am concerned about – somewhat similar in results for the child that can be found in parents who haven’t dealt with their own pain and grief resulting from infertility, who instead rush into adoption for a replacement child that can never live up to the ghost child the parents would have created. Different but same.
The adopted ones blog 
seespeakhearmama
May 23, 2013 at 3:40 pm
I absolutely love your posts. They keep me thinking and praying…always to be a better more mindful parent. I think you’re spot on with today’s post. I do feel I was called to adopt but my call was part of creating a family. While dating and before infertility my husband and I planned to adopt. So it was always part of the conversation – we were called but not in the “I just want to give back” way. We were dreaming about our one day family and how we would create it.
Your blog has blessed me and continues to do so. In this vein I am nominating you for the Super Sweet blogger award. Follow this link for more info: http://seespeakhearmama.com/2013/05/23/ive-been-nomin…-blogger-award/
Have a great day!
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TAO
May 23, 2013 at 3:53 pm
Seespeakhearmama – adoptive parents have called me many things but never sweet – usually the opposite! I appreciate that you can hear what I have to say without a defensive wall coming up and stopping the conversation because I am blunt. I also apprciate that you can see there the same differences I see. Very much appreciate that – more than you might ever understand.
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seespeakhearmama
May 23, 2013 at 6:58 pm
It’s all good. I don’t always agree with your opinions but I DEFINITELY hear you. That one doesnt always agree might only mean that one has not yet processed the viewpoint. So much to consider and we could probably talk at length about this but I really do appreciate your words/work. Stay blessed and keep writing.
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TAO
May 23, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Seespeakhearmama – I would never expect anyone to always agree – sometimes I look back and don’t agree with myself – I appreciate your grace though in listening…
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Dannie
May 23, 2013 at 5:40 pm
being “Called to adopt” can harbor a superior complex or a “job” like complex that can ultimately get in the way of relationship with your children….we should all think about why we want to adopt. I knew I could offer a decent life to a child and I wanted to be a parent so badly….yeah I was single and most people even thought that was selfish…only doing it for myself. I think adopting a child, one has to know this child will always have two families, the family structure may be different because of this, and one has to learn to accept it and be ok with it…whether the way of life is closed or open due to circumstances. Also parenting is not for self-fulfilment….children need decent chances in life to become decent citizens no matter if biological or adopted (decent chances does not mean money or the pressure to give up for adoption because one is unwed…let me clarify that point) by being loved, being prodded on to be the best they can be.
Being called to do something, one tends to be good at that in the job sense (pastors, teachers, police officers etc.) but there is a wall there as in one doesn’t really engage completely with the people under their care….they do to an extent but not entirely.
Parenthood one needs to engage, be in constant relationship. Where the “call to adopt” mentality can really impact is that is more about “me, me, me” and look what I did, everyone should do it and I can see it impacting relationship if mentality is not changed.
My 2 cents….
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TAO
May 23, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Awe Dannie – instead of trying to craft a post that wouldn’t offend everyone who read it – I should have just used your words – it’s all about your mentality and your wanting to be a parent first and then whether you can be open to the reality of there being two families and if you can be the right type of parent…
Hope all is progressing well in the new soon to be little one?
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Dannie
May 23, 2013 at 8:25 pm
Progressing well. I find myself with what they call “preggo brain” where my grammer is off, I space out, or completely forget things but overall progressing well. Of course since I turn 35 next week that magical age of warm fuzzy “advanced maternal age” even though everything is fine I hate that I’m still classified as high risk due to age. I should tell them where to shove their advanced maternal age crap. LOL. Well I’m glad my comment/thoughts made sense.
It can be easy to get a big head with adoption, I’m sure your folks got all kinds of compliments on what saints they were because I get them too and I have to step back before it all goes to my head….not sure where this sainthood bestowing came about from…..I hope you are well too 🙂
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TAO
May 23, 2013 at 10:23 pm
Yeah – I understand the age thing – it’s all relative – I get it in reverse because I’m too young for what I have…Glad though that you get special attention!
Not sure how much mom and dad got the awesome comments because he was just Doc and did things his own way, and said what was on his mind and would have called it rubbish to their face… 🙂 I’m doing okay…summer always makes life better too.
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eagoodlife
May 23, 2013 at 8:16 pm
“Parenthood one needs to engage, be in constant relationship. Where the “call to adopt” mentality can really impact is that is more about “me, me, me” and look what I did, everyone should do it and I can see it impacting relationship if mentality is not changed” -so very true and getting to the part that bothers me so much.It is about own salvation, having done good and being seen to have done good by saving an orphan..
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TAO
May 23, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Hey Von – you can see why I love Dannie…very deep thinker (despite her advance maternal age (don’t hit me Dannie))…
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Dannie
May 24, 2013 at 3:55 pm
hmmm….no hitting just some more ideas I came up with that are equivalent 😛
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monk-monk
May 23, 2013 at 9:01 pm
Um, awesome. So well put of what I’ve been trying to convey for awhile now. Gonna have to pass this around!
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TAO
May 23, 2013 at 10:27 pm
Hey Monk-Monk – I worried so much about hitting publish because so often my words don’t explain so am glad it worked this time…
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keri
May 24, 2013 at 1:11 pm
i am a believer in jesus…and i think those who do go into adoption because they want to parent but are christians sometimes put the God thing first because hell if you don’t put God first in everything you do and say you are “not giving Him all the Glory”……..we did go into adoption because we wanted to be parents again not because He mandates to care for the orphan….what bothers me is once making the decision to adopt all that religious-speak just kinda fuels the “i’m doing the right thing fire” and perspective can get lost………i know it did for me……i wanted to parent a child that needed some parents…….not to save them for jesus……because if i do believe in God isn’t He big enough to reach my daughter whether she was with me or in China………..and i do worry about those children who are adopted only for “salvation’s” sake……
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TAO
May 24, 2013 at 1:16 pm
Hey keri – no idea why your comment went to moderation. I’m glad you understood I wasn’t speaking to all 🙂 your last line is exactly where my concern lays…
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Jenn
May 25, 2013 at 3:40 am
I was by earlier – came by because Lisha had nominated your blog for the Super Sweet Blogger Award – and typed this whole thing out, then cut and saved it. And now, I’m back with the cut and paste. I’ve read your “about” and this post. You know what, I never really thought about all those things from an adoption viewpoint before. Like a medical emergency and having to have a court order for information … under physical threat and duress. Or, the orphanage “business”.
When I fill out family medical history – it’s kind of incomplete because my grandparents are long gone, maybe some facts weren’t passed down and others, I’ve forgotten or didn’t pay attention to begin with. Sometimes, medical histories were kept “secret” because diseases, like Tuberculosis, were so shameful that even close family members might not have been told the truth. My husband saw that in his family. I know “just enough” of my family medical history to “get me by”.
To make matters stickier – there are those who intentionally keep information about one parent or another from a child because of the physical risk they think is involved (some think it’s a risk and for others, it’s real). In that case, the child believes they are the son/daughter of someone but they are not. (Messy issues!) They would give their presumed parent’s medical history and that would be misleading. Discretion is a risky thing .. or perhaps it’s not always quality/godly discretion?
I have a blended family of my husband, his son and myself. When we first got married, my step son was 13 years old. I met him when he was 12. I read about blended families once and thought there was something “magical” about being blended. It’s hard work. Being a family or origin is hard work. Parenting is in itself hard work. Adoption is blending families whether we realize it or not and overcoming things that come with the child that perhaps no one knows why because there is no understanding of the birth family sometimes. That would be quite a job. I felt very strongly about not passing my family junk onto my step son. As strongly as I felt about it … it’s a tough job to take on! And what got through? Who knows. Oh goodness, the rubbish that works its way out of our lives is amazing. I couldn’t do that w/o the LORD. (Though I’ve tried.)
I had a friend once whose mother had 5 or 6 kids, only two had the same father. I know of someone who only wanted to be pregnant (at a very early age) and she has built a very similar situation to my own friend’s (mother’s) situation. There are so many variables in these family equations, aren’t there? In my situation, it just shows me more and more how faithful Jehovah God is … and how unruly mankind (or, I) can be.
My last thought on this is that I can’t rule out those who might start with the wrong or slightly misplaced attitudes and then change – because isn’t that what happens to people as they parent? Okay, not everyone takes that on, I know. Anyway, when you do, you see where “you” need to grow up and change. And then there are those who tarnish the “calling” some truly feel. I would hope that for the most part, folks simply misuse the language of “a calling” and really mean they want to be parents. But – given a few people I’ve seen in some television spots …. I would have to wonder for they sure seem to be “all about me”.
Shining a light on the subject – asking folks to think it through for real before adopting, looking for ways to secure birth records … very powerful tools. An intense subject that truly needs some light on it.
Oh, I thought I was finished? I can’t help but think of these two verses:
From James 1:26-27 (NIV) “Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
Accompanied with one of the Old Testament instructions to the Israelites about widows, orphans and aliens (non-residents): “But you shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and that the Lord your God redeemed you from there; therefore I am commanding you to do this thing. “When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow.”
There are many ways of looking after and providing for others – adoption is just one. I’m glad there are indeed folks who adopt for all the right reasons. I knew of one little boy years ago who was very proud to be adopted and his parents were wonderful. Good stories, like Lisha’s, are out there! But, from what I’ve read here on your blog, there is a need to shed some light on some much needed changes. Tough subject, for some might not have gone full term on pregnancy without that right to privacy and … well … it’s all a tough personal, spiritual, moral, legal and political situation, isn’t it? With any number of abusers and abuses to go with it, unfortunately.
I hope sharing my thoughts lends some (good) reasoning that might be helpful. If only we’d all do right, right? But – we (for the most part) do our best instead .. still making a mess of things, I know.
On the (very) much lighter side of things – I sure like your blog Theme. I’m always switching out themes. I may put this on my faith blog. Looks neat.
Thanks, Jenn
PS – for those who support such organizations, here’s one website I know of, which might have insight to that organization’s use of donations: http://www.charitynavigator.org/
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TAO
May 25, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Hey Jenn – thanks for not just reading one post – but trying to see who the person writing is.
Medical history can indeed be full of gaps, also complicated by older medical terminology for disease names – but you can get a sense of what lays in your family health history simply by the age and cause of death for each person – which when you are family and know the names you can obtain by simply ordering the death certificate. Those simple avenues are not available to the adoptee in a closed adoption. For myself I had a full detailed family health history waiting for me and that is amazing but to me not unexpected because I am a detail and fact person and I’m pretty sure that is a hereditary trait – so at least some in my family would share that trait. The medical history that was most valuable and would have directly impacted medical decisions – happened after I was born and adopted out. Think about that for a moment because if I had grown up in my birth family I would have known about the deaths of such very close relatives to myself, and what they died from and the age when they died.
In real life there are very messy situations – completely agree – but regardless whether you name the parent or not for whatever reason there is never an excuse to pretend a parent is a biological parent – if there is a safety risk then you can decide if you have to wait to disclose until they reach adulthood I guess so little ones don’t spill the beans. You can also just note that there is a very strong FHH of _____ in the family to warn your doctor or – better than nothing.
Back the topic: “I would hope that for the most part, folks simply misuse the language of “a calling” and really mean they want to be parents.” I hope so too, and tried to say that in the paragraph – it’s those that don’t that cause me the concern because if you don’t want to be a parent deep down – just concerns me. That to me is where the rallying cry from a church ministry can cause harm to those who they initially want to help – and I am passionate about adoptees even though my story is vastly different than their story of abuse or unethical adoptions – their stories didn’t have to turn out that way.
I wrote a post that you might enjoy on the Biblical side – one of the parables in the Bible that doesn’t get the play that it deserves because it doesn’t fit with the adoption meme – yet it should and you have to read the entire story to hear the ending because it takes it full circle. I tried to talk nicely in the post but only the reader can assess the results. By the way I appreciated that you used both verses in James…
I recognise that my posts tend to be on the negative side of things but I would guess there are about a thousand fluffy blogs to counter the dark side no one seems willing to delve into to, make it better, do better. I don’t see any impetus by the “adoption industry” to do that, or at least they are not publicly admitting to the wrongs in the past to show they have changed. When Dan Rather did a show on my era (baby scoop era) only one of the old agencies accepted that mistakes had been made in how they treated mothers. That saddened me when I turn around and see Australia apologise for the same mistakes made, Ireland starting to, Canada investigating – you have to acknowledge the wrongs done to so many tens of thousands of mothers. When you hear about what the problems are in international adoption – you hear the message “Stuck” provides – no one owns up to the fact that corruption and a deeply flawed system that allowed a country to get so bad that the only option was to close it to adoption. Truth heals. Truth empowers change. I was listening to a Ted talk yesterday from a coach/teacher who started teaching back in the early 1930′s I think (?). One line fits: Without change there is no progress.
About mothers wanting anonymity – I think there is of course those who want to keep the pregnancy a secret from their current day life – but can you honestly believe that twenty or thirty years later they would object to their child having the right to their original birth certificate? I can’t. Even if the adoptee wanted to search after receiving it – it’s done discreetly and with great forethought and intentions. And at the end of the search if the mother does not want a relationship – of course the adoptee will feel bad but no one can force another to have a relationship – there are laws in place to deal with that if it comes to that and I think that would be extremely rare (far rarer than unethical adoptions happen) Completely different contexts…
The blog theme – this is one of the few wordpress themes that allows you to have a blog roll on a separate page – most only offer it as a widget on your front page. But it is easy to work with.
Now I need more coffee!
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Jenn
May 26, 2013 at 5:08 pm
I enjoyed reading your response. It’s hard to say “enjoy” on a subject like this – but I think you know what I mean. I’ll have to read the post you mentioned and read a bit more around your blog. I don’t know how involved (yet) you are in these matters – but it seems like a good thing to open the eyes of folks who need it by a blog … hopefully, folks will think and choose rightly.
I don’t like it when people mess with children, elderly and animals. Well, I don’t like it when people mess w/people. But those groups are more defenseless than the “rest of us”. And, it breaks my heart in two.
On the theme – a separate blog roll page? That’s neat. I’ll have to check it out. I did put the theme on my faith blog. So far I like it. I’ll be back again sometime later to read more.
In the meantime, keep speaking through your writing. You never know who reads what and then what transpires.
Thanks, Jenn
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Valentine Logar
May 26, 2013 at 12:52 pm
I think you have said it very well Tao, the ‘call’ to adopt is hopefully always because the couple or individual simply wants to parent, to form a family. This isn’t of course always true and where this isn’t the case, frankly I for one wish they were prevented from adopting. It is difficult to determine what motivates though, isn’t it? It is so simple to parrot the words someone wants to hear, I know my mother passed with flying colors.
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TAO
May 26, 2013 at 5:46 pm
The motives…how many there truly are – whether it is society saying if you are married you should want a family – I think perhaps that pressure was more obvious in our day but it still exists. When will people learn that the best life is the life where you live doing what makes you the happiest, not what makes you the most money, or the most “things”, or makes you fit into the societal circle you think you should be in. Yesterday, I read “Life Without Principles” by Henry David Thoreau – someone I had never read before but I was thinking about the saying Marching to a Different Drummer and found out that it was attributed to him. He made the point of doing something you love doing – so you do it right and want to do it right.
With the adoption orphan ministries – perhaps it is the religious society pressure to adopt in some churches coupled with the desire to show you are committed. With all the discussions about Kathryn Joyce’s book happening now – I just can’t get Hana Williams out of my mind this time of year – just past the 2nd anniversary of her death, and just the start of the trial of those who adopted her – the what ifs just don’t stop.
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eagoodlife
May 26, 2013 at 9:52 pm
As a blogger who often writes ‘on the dark side’ of adoption because it needs exposing, just a couple more points.The Australian Aplogies, all States have apologised as well as the Feds, were not just for mothers but for adoptees, for the harm we suffered, the inhumane treatment and the cruelty of adoption, an adoption that hasn’t really changed it still involves mother-loss and trauma.That is signigicant because it has set a precedent, when Governments recognise the harm of adoption others must surely follow and it can never be taken back.It has been said and remains on record. Adoption harms, is unhumane and cruel.
I note that those writing of orphan saving and ministries etc even individual adoptions, talk of their motives, their feelings etc but never anything about the adoptee.It seems we get the left over forgotten bale of straw, the hard, inedible olives, the benefit of charity which is usually accompanied by pity, the great disempowerer.
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TAO
May 26, 2013 at 11:13 pm
I think the lack of talking about the trauma has caused quite a few disruptions. I know they do get some education in class but there obviously needs so much more both pre and post adoption. I don’t know though how you can break through the naive desire to want to do something good. There is so much out there on what institutional living can do to a child but people always have the belief it will be different.
I do think adoption (domestic) closed as in our type of adoption caused a lot of harm, some more than others, and I was proud of Australia for doing what they did. I do see progress into a kinder, gentler, version of adoption – not perfect by any means but better than what it was. If the profit was removed it could progress much quicker in the US so that adoption was a solution when it was needed.
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eagoodlife
May 26, 2013 at 9:56 pm
TAO so glad you’ve been reading Thoreau, I’m a devoted fan. I also adore ‘The Harvester’ influenced by his ideas, by Gene Stratton Porter. It’s on my 10 best list, you might enjoy it!
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TAO
May 26, 2013 at 11:16 pm
I will check out Porter – thank you. Why I love the internet – a simple thought turns into an education. I really enjoyed reading it yesterday – kept nodding my head. I find a lot of peace in reading the thoughts of people who reached deep inside themselves and gave grave thought to how life should be lived.
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barb_aloot
May 26, 2013 at 9:58 pm
To be really honest, I get very worried about the whole concept of an ‘orphan ministry’. If you want to help vulnerable children, fantastic, but you don’t have to adopt them to help them, and the kids with a parent or two are also vulnerable in areas without adequate resources. I think there is only one reason to adopt: you want to be a parent. Cause guess what, when you adopt – you’re a parent. So if that is not really what your expectation and priority is, you’ve just completely messed up that vulnerable child’s life, no matter how good your intentions were.
I do worry about people feeling pressured to adopt, and with the increased focus on corruption, I worry that some feel this means they need to adopt older children (because it gets so oversimplified) and then they are totally unprepared when the adopted child is angry, suffering culture shock, not seeing them as parents, etc. And that’s a recipe for a headline tragedy, as you point out.
I felt called to be a parent. I decided to adopt for a whole mess of reasons: single, medical issues, concerns about overpopulation, not feeling any need to see ‘my’ features in my child.
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TAO
May 26, 2013 at 11:19 pm
Oh my yes – some may go for the oversimplified route. Never thought of that. Oh my…
Want to be a parent first – the best damn parent possible. Best starting point – hopefully agencies start focusing on doing it right or not doing it at all. They have the power to say you are not suited to be adoptive parents. We won’t take your money. sigh
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marilynn
May 27, 2013 at 6:10 pm
Yeah see that scares the hell out of me. If people who adopt are doing it because they want to be parents they are going to be really let down because they’ll become adoptive parents when they adopt. The child becomes their adopted child. The child still has parents and they still are the child of those parents even those they are not being raised by them.
Its the whole craziness of trying to apply one title to two different things. Saying that raising a child is the thing that makes a person a parent is incredibly confusing and there are so many mixed messages for adopted people to contend with so many expectations to manage so many people’s feelings to avoid hurting all the time when the expectation is that they have to serve as the child of their adopted parents rather than just being their parents child and their adoptive parents adopted child.
For the most part people adopt or raise donor offspring as plan B alternative to raising their own kids but then won’t acknowledge that plan B goes both ways. The plan B kid has a Plan A parent or parents out there somewhere and they have to reconcile how they feel about those Plan A parents and its probably easier to do that if they are not having to worry that the B’s deserve to feel like A’s because they did all the work or whatever.
It kind of sucks to set up the expectation that doing the work of a parent makes you a parent because then it’s like a person can earn themselves the title of parent over another person whatever can be earned can be bought and in the end the person who has no choice in the matter transferred from one parent to the next winds up feeling like a commodity that can be bought and sold when really they were owed something by the people that created them and they did not receive it for whatever reason.
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TAO
May 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm
Marilyn – mom and dad are my mom and dad – my mother and father are my mother and father – both sets of parents are real to me. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make but I think both your comments missed what I was talking about in the post. I’m not trying to be mean in my response but it seems like you are talking about stuff unrelated to the post.
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marilynn
May 27, 2013 at 5:41 pm
When my daughter was in kindergarten a teacher at her school and his wife were killed in a car accident leaving behind an infant and a toddler. Their good friends adopted the siblings not because they were looking to become parents – not because they were looking to form a family or have children of their own – they adopted them because their parents died and someone needed to raise them to adulthood. They, in my mind adopted those kids for the RIGHT reasons. The kids call them Ama and Apa not Mom and Dad. They have parents, and they have adoptive parents. They did not disrespect the children by forcing them to forsake their own family their own parents by making them refer to them as Mom and Dad. Their Mom and Dad and family were not replaced by them and I think that is very respectful. They did not rename the children. They did not have new birth certificates issued naming them as parents either and somehow they are able to get through daily life raising two kids whose last name does not match theirs. They are somehow able to enroll them in school and get them passports and whatnot without having their names on their birth certificates as Mother and Father.
Family members sometimes adopt members of their own family without referring to themselves as Mom and Dad. They don’t adopt because they want to be parents they adopt because someone has to perform parental duties in the absence of parents who cannot or will not fulfill those duties themselves.
I’m reacting to your statement that the good reason to adopt is that the people want to become parents as opposed to wanting to help orphaned children. I don’t think its right to adopt a person in order for that adopted person to serve in any particular roll or duty whether the expectation is for the adopted person to serve as the adoptive parents child or serve as a parishioner in any particular religion. If you do it you should do it because you want to help a family in crisis and hopefully form strong bonds with those adopted kids in your own right with them being who they are and you being who you are.
It’s like saying you don’t have to be anything other than who you are for us to love you and want to raise you – you don’t have to pretend to be our child or give up your name and your family or feel like you are not still every bit a member of your own family in order to be every bit a member of our family. We really love you for who you are and would not change a single thing about you. Your who you are because your parents made you that way and your just perfect. Just perfect.
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marilynn
May 27, 2013 at 6:29 pm
I know that my statements go against the conventional thinking that the right reason for people to adopt is that they want to be parents but if people did not expect to be parents of the children they adopt there would be none of these issues with revised birth records with sealed records with anonymous donors and all the horrible injustices that separated families endure when they loose a member through adoption or donor conception or paternity fraud. All of that crap is because people want to think that they can become parents of other people’s children by adopting or by giving birth to another woman’s embryo or by being married to someone that gives birth. If they did not get to become parents by adopting then the records of millions of people would be accurate and would not be concealed from them. That’s blunt. That is the truth.
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TAO
May 27, 2013 at 6:32 pm
Marilyn, did you actually read the post?
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m
May 28, 2013 at 2:31 pm
totally read it
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m
May 28, 2013 at 2:59 pm
Wow I don’t know how you can see it as unrelated. Then you really don’t get it. The whole reason why records and everything are sealed up and identities are changed is because people who adopt don’t do it to help a child in need, they do it to become parents. They do it to get a child. If they just did it to help a child in need to help a family in crisis, no names would ever be changed, no birth certificates would ever be falsified, no parents names would ever be hidden away. Legally you cannot have two sets of parents or two families and that is the problem. You say you have a Mother and a Father and a Mom and a Dad but legally you stopped being a member of your family because the people who adopted you wanted to be parents rather than simply wanting to help raise you to adulthood. It’s the underpinning of the whole industry that you stop having one set of parents and get a new set when you are adopted and then you loose a bunch of rights. The people I’ve helped who are in reunion still have no legal rights they can’t officially take time off work to attend their Mother’s funeral or they can’t officially claim their disabled sibling as a relative dependent even though he’ll live out the rest of his life in their home in their care all because one or both of them was adopted and got new parents names on their birth records. It’s the desire to be parents that is what is wrong with adoption. Because what is wrong with adoption is that human beings loose their right to have their reality recognized. When adopted people talk about their two families – that’s a legally unrecognized reality. Adopting to become parents is the core problem. I definitely read the post.
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TAO
May 28, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Marilyn,
The reason I asked you if you had read the post was two-fold.
My opening paragraph specifically stated I wasn’t going into any of the legalities. But seeing as you are determined to take it to that level: I am speaking in regards to international adoption and from what I have learned is that in some of the countries that legal separation does not happen in the home country so trying to incorporate your concerns fails. Nor are records sealed in some countries.
My entire post was centered around the religious orphan ministry and my concern when people hear the message and go out and “adopt” with the primarily and/or only intention of bringing the message of Jesus to the child OR as it seems in some cases to be seen within their community as such good Christians. Those individuals are the ones I am concerned about and why reading posts that OMIT wanting to be parents and then choosing adoption and then what type of adoption bother me.
Barbs point of with all the talk about unethical adoptions happening internationally – some will jump unprepared and unrealistic and adopt older children with institutional problems on top of the original problem of losing their family to avoid any concern of trafficking.
I am NOT talking about domestic infant adoption in this post. I completely understand that I was legally severed from my biological family and any and all rights that go with that honor, and I was adopted into an unrelated family and gained the rights to them. And you know what – I don’t fall into your definition of why people adopt in DIA because mom and dad adopted me because I needed a home – they were already completely done with adopting and I don’t fault them one bit that they wanted to become parents through adoption. To be blatantaly clear – I would not have wanted to grow up with a different last name because they are mom and dad and how could they be mom and dad if I was someone else. My mom and dad who have NEVER felt threatened by the fact that I have another mother and father – who used those titles for my Mother and Father.
Feel free to tell me I don’t get it…but I have lived it…
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TAO
May 28, 2013 at 3:27 pm
And I would not have enjoyed going through life with my first and second names listed as “Baby Girl”
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TAO
May 28, 2013 at 3:52 pm
Marilyn,
I thought I would come back and provide you with details regarding adoption law in the DRC which is one of the current go-to countries for international adoption and where the adoption actually takes place. This is from one post in a series of posts detailing the law and I am just pulling two bits from it.
http://kitumaini.blogspot.ca/2013_04_01_archive.html
Article 677
The adoptee is considered in all respects as the child of the adopter. He/she enters into the adopter’s family.
Article 678
The adoptee retains his/her ties with his/her birth family. His/her descendants have ties with the adoptive family of origin.
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