By TAO
My last post was primarily about an adoption that needed to happen, and, how thankful I am that the babe would have good parents that are the right type of parents (my criteria). In that post I listed the thoughts that run through my head when I hear about “an adoption“.
This post is about how on-line people just rave about how beautiful adoption is…without knowing anything about the actual adoption they are cheering on. For all they know “that adoption” has so many ethical and moral concerns, that no one should cheer it at all. In what other situation would anyone cheer something that might be unethical, unnecessary, or just plain wrong?
The other day I stumbled on an adoption Facebook page that was all about how wonderful it is when an adoption happens. And I am still shaking my head over how eager people are to promote any adoption… (conversation paraphrased below)
Anonymous expectant mother is having a C-section tomorrow, give her some love.
The first commenter gives some support and wise warning words about open adoption isn’t enforceable, and, other sage words reminding her that she has the right to change her mind. Then posts immediately under that post with a “I hope that doesn’t come across as anti-adoption”. (WTH? is it anti-adoption to offer her with the truth?)
A few more commented to remind her that she doesn’t have to sign until she is ready, etc. Overall some real support that whatever your decision is we are here for you type statements.
Then the you are a hero, inspiration, awesome, brave, you can do this, amazing, strong, beautiful, selfless, etc. posts start in the comments…many, many posts.
So what’s wrong with that?
She hasn’t even given birth yet. She hasn’t met her baby yet. She will be under strong pain medication. She hasn’t made the final decision, but, the tone is that it’s a done deal, signed, sealed, surrendered, she is a “birthmother”.
And not a single one of the people posting those messages have a clue who she is…
Whether or not the father is part of the decision, or, she has cut him out by unfair laws. Whether she was moved to another state, away from all her familial support system, and, monitored by the agency worker. If she had unbiased counseling, and, legal advice. Whether the prospective adoptive parents have courted her, and, promised her the moon – but don’t intend to keep any promise made.
I could go on but will stop there because you know what makes adoption ethical…
The conversation started out good – unbiased support to make sure that if the adoption happened – it was on her terms (but tell me when adoption became something so sacred that talking about realities equals anti-adoption?). But then the “you are already a “birthmom“” crowd happened, and, you are such a hero started piling on…she could be the nicest women on the earth, and, the adoption completely above-board – or not, no one knows – yet they are willing to stake their own reputation that everything is just swell, because it’s adoption.
Stop being the cheerleader for any and all adoptions that you know nothing about…
Start looking at the actual situation, do you know enough to voice your support of this adoption? If not, and you feel like you need to say something – take the route of offering sage advice that may not have been relayed to her, red-flags to watch out for, and, offer her support for whatever her decision is, if you actually mean it.
Take “adoption” off the sacred pedestal of always good, always better…sometimes it is the right choice, sometimes it’s not…
The adopted ones blog 
Judith Land
November 26, 2013 at 4:34 pm
“There are four kinds of adoption—nefarious, forgivable, warranted, and praiseworthy.”
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:46 am
I have never run into a “praise worthy adoption” by a birth mother. Please enlighten me.
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Judith Land
November 26, 2013 at 4:37 pm
I like your lilac cover picture…I have always associated lilacs with my adoption—here’s why. http://judithland.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/first-lilac-club-was-an-instant-success-judith-land-adoption-detective/
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Don't We Look Alike?
November 26, 2013 at 7:42 pm
Thank you!
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cb
November 27, 2013 at 12:17 am
Didn’t ya know, adoptliness is next to Godliness!
The “problem” is that honesty and ethics when it comes to adoption usually results in fewer adoptions and we can’t have that, can we.
It does always irk me when I see people constantly post things like “What a selfless decision you are making. I wouldn’t have been able to become a mom if it hadn’t been for selfless women like yourself making the loving choice of adoption. I wish more women would make that loving choice”. As an adoptee, it makes me wonder who the most important person in the adoption actually is.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:46 am
The most important person in an adoption in the adoptee, always. Unless somehow that birth mother is younger than the child… is that possible?
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cb
November 29, 2013 at 1:04 am
The most important person in the above person’s view of adoption is themselves, the adoptive parents. It should be the adoptee but in reality it isn’t.
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everyoneactdead
November 27, 2013 at 5:12 am
The disgusting adoption-is-always-glorious crowd would do well to have some manners and respect for what I know to be the very saddest day and the lowest point of this woman’s life. No matter how good her reasons and how ethical the adoption–ethics are nonexistent anyway when a mother is signing away her rights within days–this is sad, this is a mother losing her child, and an infant losing the only mother it has ever known. Anyone who is ignoring or glossing over this tragedy and celebrating the acquirement of a baby is the very definition of a bottomfeeder to me.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:42 am
WoW, as an adoptee that is one ignorant statement. Bottomfeeder? So it is wrong to “rejoice” that a child now has a home? Gees, I would hate to be related to you. As sad as it is for the woman, for someone who is adopted like I am it is a sad day EVERYDAY that we consider our birth moms. Think about that before making such ignorant comments. -OM
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Please be polite, challenge the idea but not that way.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 3:09 pm
I will let you sit here in your small bubble with people that agree with you. That is fine, have fun.
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Why thank you for letting me sit here in my small bubble… (???)
You have a wonderful and Happy Thanksgiving now…
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everyoneactdead
November 28, 2013 at 6:16 pm
I think you missed my point a little bit and you just stumbled into this without knowing what is being discussed. In any event, thank you for attacking me personally on Thanksgiving Day.
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Everyone, yes! Very glad you acknowledged back to the speaker that only you hold the power over whether or not someones random words affect you. Stay strong…keep talking…I don’t always respond but am very protective…
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:49 pm
I trust my reading thanks. I think you guys were just surprised someone cared. Or maybe your writing was unclear. My last comment, take care and have a nice Thanksgiving.
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 6:54 pm
As my grandmother was so fond of saying:
Leaving so soon? We were just beginning to like you…
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:57 pm
I did feel a little love actually. Adoption is a sensitive topic and I judge by what I read here.i know none of you personally and words or interpretations might have got mixed. I never see being pro adoption as a bad thing even if it is “trendy.” I think that is your issue with people taunting it. I can understand that, but I disagree with it. Anyways, have a nice Thanksgiving. -OM
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Opinionated Man. You are correct you do not know us. If you had actually listened to the words in the post it isn’t that I am against adoption, but I am against unethical adoptions and cheering on an adoption you know nothing about the ethics involved shouldn’t ever happen because you don’t know if it is a good adoption or an ethical mess. The first paragraph links back to the last post where I am thankful an adoption happened and I can say that because I know enough about that adoption – to stand behind my words.
Bad analogy but off the top of my head: I have nothing against people who sell homes, but I am against people who sell homes without disclosing the fact that it used to be some type of a drug factory (or whatever) that has the potential to harm the new owners.
Ethics in adoption matters to me and I will talk about it until I cannot talk about it anymore.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 7:44 pm
And like I said. I cheer all adoption so you see I did read. We disagree.
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Beth
November 27, 2013 at 1:00 pm
“(WTH? is it anti-adoption to offer her with the truth?)”
I got past this statement, and was still laughing by the time I finished the rest!
I’m not sure how long I have been online talking about adoption…a long time, too long.
But since day one I’ve attempted to tell the truth about things, and have been labeled angry anti-adoption person at most turns.
Probably by the “everything (except the wait) is just swell because it’s adoption” bunch.
Great post TAO, thanks.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:50 am
Not all adoptions are good and work out, but they are better than an orphange. That is something you commenters will never understand. A shame that you can make such comments from the shadow. Oh well, I suppose it is easy to judge things with no idea of how it feels to be “that child.” -OM
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Please be polite to commenters but am positive Beth can hold her own.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 1:48 pm
Yes she seems very capable of judging something she will never endure.
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cb
November 29, 2013 at 1:07 am
Who says we would have ended up in an orphanage? Most of us would have liked our mothers to have had more of a choice.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 6:44 am
I disagree with your post and I too am adopted. I was left on the street by my “birth mom” at the age of 3. My agency found her in Korea at the age of 18, but she refused to talk to me or let me see my sister. You may say that we shouldn’t judge, but I judge my birth mom everyday. Is that wrong? Please someone come tell me I am wrong… -OM
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 1:15 pm
Hi Opinionated Man. Did you actually read the post? That it was specifically about the domestic infant adoption arena, and, people who never question if the adoption they are cheering on is actually ethical? That they don’t know enough about the situation to fall on either side – but rather – should walk the middle ground. That people cheering on a specific adoption they know nothing about is putting their reputation on the line with those words? Would you cheer on something that can be fraught with ethical and moral challenges if you did not have enough facts to judge the situation? I wouldn’t.
Not to mention that in their words the choice has already been made before the mother has even given birth – which statistics will show that at least 20% of mothers change their minds after the baby is born and make the decision to utilize the hand ups available to them in the US?
I recognize that your lens is that of the societal attitude that still exists in South Korea and the stigma and sanctions applied to both the single mother and child. That isn’t what exists currently in the USA – it was what applied when I was adopted but not any more. Today the child is not a
“filius nullius” (child of no one) in the US. They have the right of inheritance, the right to hold positions in society, etc. There are no societal sanctions against a child born to a single mother – in fact 40.7% of all births in the USA in 2012 were born to single mothers. There is nothing shameful about it at all.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 1:47 pm
I am Korean, but was adopted to the USA. Yes I read your article thus the replies. I don’t care the stats, adoption shouldn’t be held in a negative light regardless of any change YOU may perceive. Again, I disagree with your stance. Take care.
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Beth
November 28, 2013 at 7:39 pm
I totally understand you judging and being angry at your mother. I’d never tell you are wrong about how you feel about that. Sorry things didn’t work out for you so well then.
Not all adoptions are the same, nor the reasons for them. We are all individuals with individual situations.
I was taken from my perfectly good loving mother the second I was born, because she was 19 and not married, she never saw or touched me. She was treated horribly during her pregnancy and during my birth – not to mention after.
I’m not permitted to know who she is, by the laws of the state I was born in.
I was basically stolen from my father by not telling him I existed, was born, or was being placed for adoption. They knew who he was, and where he was.
I got great adopted parents, so did TAO. We got lucky, many are not so lucky. I’m glad you got good parents too, all kids deserve to be treated with respect.
Adopting parents are not always praiseworthy like so many seem to say and believe, get over it. Adoption is not always done in the best interests of the child, get over it.
No stats needed, WATCH THE NEWS.
What about the mother that chooses adoption for her child, in the best interests of her child, a mother who is promised the world, insisted on and promised an open adoption. All her expenses paid, plus some, maybe some college money, a few thou for breast implants, a new house, car…. then, since it’s not legally enforceable the adopted parents close the adoption and she never sees her child again. Do you like that part about adoption today?? It’s very, very common, and often planned on from the beginning – whatever it takes to get that baby.
How about those that adopt from an orphanage, or foster care and decide they don’t want the disruptive kid after all, and find someone on the internet to pass the kid off to. Did you catch all that in the news lately?
Adoption is often child trafficking, adoption is often about getting an infant at any cost because someone thinks they deserve, and are entitled to, someone else’s kid when they can’t have their own, or don’t want to have their own. Right now, just think of all the people praying for something to happen for a mother and child to be separated so they can have the child. Adoption is not perfect in this country, it has harmed many children and families, it’s also helped many children and families.
I’m sure we’d all like to see more of the latter, and less of the former.
I am not anti-adoption, neither is TAO or most people who post here. My family is chocked full of adoptees. Check out TAO’s other post about how happy she is for a child to see a necessary, legal and ethical adoption take place. I am anti-illegal-and-unethical adoption. I am anti-adoption when an adoption isn’t necessary. There is way too much of that going on today.
Are you Pro-illegal-unethical-adoption and child trafficking for adoption? FYI, That’s what it sounds like you are saying.
I’ve been called anti-adoption for wanting to know my mother’s name. For wanting my actual record of birth which is kept from me forever. What do you think about that issue? Do you think I should not know my mother’s name? The severely pro-adoption people fight against me, do you? Are you my enemy? Am I your enemy for wanting to know my mother’s name?
What are you doing with your opinion to make adoption better?
Why are orphanages in other countries holding adoptable orphans of all ages hostage until families come up with $40,000+ to give to the adoption agency alone? I get way too many emails from people begging for money to adopt, begging me to go thru their Amazon.com page when I shop so they will get percentage, invites to parties to buy stuff which gives them a percentage towards their adoption fund, all kinds of tournaments and shows charging admission to get more adoption funds, flat out begging for donations. All this fundraising takes months, years, all the while a kid who needs a family is held hostage. Don’t you want to fix that?
Adoption only helps about 1% of the children in need in this world right now. Adoption isn’t always needed to give a child a family and home. I’ve helped raise over two dozen children so far, have given them family forever, a home, whatever they needed, and hopefully a great future. I’ve never adopted, it wasn’t needed.
Dude, there is so much wrong with how adoption is often done, I could type for days. But my dinner is almost done 🙂
Step out, take a look at the big picture, you have to look beyond the rainbow and fluffy bunnies to see it. You have to look beyond yourself, beyond your own emotions and opinions. You have to listen to many people’s stories to see it. Nobody wants to, only the brave and strong get past those cute bunnies. Stand up, suck it up, get over it, and help make adoption better for everyone. Support ethical adoptions ONLY. Too much of it is an embarrassment to my country that I love.
Lots of adopted parents support open records, enforceable open adoptions, and the rest of it that we talk about here, and there. More and more everyday. Most parents don’t want to feel bad about their adoptions, they want them to be on the up and up. Most parents are in it for the right reasons, and when they are able to see the bad stuff, they know what to avoid. You know that right???
But most importantly, I know some adoptees would prefer the orphanage over the graveyard any day. (not real sure how they’d feel about it – because they are dead). But, I can say for sure that I would rather visit them at the children’s home instead of the cemetery. Let’s all make sure that happens less in the future please.
Ignoring the bad stuff and doing nothing about it, doesn’t help the good stuff get better, it just helps the bad stuff get worse.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 7:42 pm
As I said I don’t care if there are bad adoptions I care only about the kids that get a chance. I disagree with you but that is life. Take care.
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 7:49 pm
You mean kids like Hana Williams or Lydia Schatz? Kids like that rescued by people who train the child with PVC piping until – you know – they die? Here’s a link to Lydia’s autopsy results http://www.paradisepost.com/news/ci_14700685 and you can read all about Hana and the sentence her mother got of 37 years for her death and the father 27 years…
Those adoptions you would have cheered too?
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 7:50 pm
Didn’t say that. I said those cases don’t take away from me being pro adoption. I actually blog about those stories frequently to raise awareness. Might not be much but I have 28000 that read my site. What do you do to promote awareness?
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TAO
November 28, 2013 at 7:56 pm
So then you DON’T cheer all adoptions…get your story straight…
I talk to adoptive parents who are in the power position in adoption seeing as they hold the purse strings – yet generally come to adoption unaware of the pitfalls and ethical challenges. Real people who can then tell ten of their friends in adoption and so on and so forth – how do you think change happens from the bottom up…and the adoption agencies that follow this blog – openly.
You seem pretty darn proud of that number – but does it represent anyone who can actually make a change? Are they adoption agencies or adoption lobbyists?
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 7:57 pm
You never know and yes I am proud of it. Took a lot of work. Take care and have a nice thanksgiving. I won’t come back by and this was actually just comments and not attacks. Anyways have a nice one. -OM
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Beth
November 29, 2013 at 1:21 pm
I’d try to find a better way to say that, really. You don’t care about all of your fellow adoptees? How crappy of you to say! As long as one child is saved the rest don’t matter? Really? LOL
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 2:09 pm
That is why I post articles about bad adoptions as well? You really are pretty dumb aren’t you? Do you and Tao and cp go to the same kindergarten?
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 2:52 pm
And again I ask what do you three do besides whine and groan in private? You asked what I do, I share the bad stories about adoption to my followers and write about it constantly. What are YOU doing BETH? Are you forming any advocate groups, or raising money? Are you doing anything besides ranting in private? I doubt any of you three are doing a single thing, sad.
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Opinionated Man
November 28, 2013 at 7:43 pm
Visit my website and I will show you what I do for adoption Beth. I mean that sincerely I advocate strongly for it to my audience. It may not be large, but I think 28,000 people is a nice listening post…
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Beth
November 29, 2013 at 1:15 pm
I have visited your website. There is a lot of hate there, hate against “mother” especially. You seem young (don’t know your age) and being an adoptee explains much of your anger. I see you push the fake adoption rainbow on anyone and everyone you can, no big deal right. And all adoption is good. And you cheer for every single adoption when it is done, whether you know anything about it or not. Everyone is saved, rescued from the big bad mother. What is up with that? Most of us here didn’t need saving. My adopted parents didn’t rescue me from anything. My original family was and is awesome.
Do you support equal access to vital records for adoptees? Is that anywhere on your site?
People like TAO and I are here to help people have good adoptions, among other things, not help push them into an unknown hole. It can be very damaging to all involved.
I encourage people to care for children, if adoption is needed many adoptees, and adopters, help people do adoption right. It’s difficult to do it right if you don’t know what the wrong parts are. If you are afraid to talk about the wrong parts, because it might dim the view on adoption, or make you scared you might loose your adoption, or that your adoption was wrong in some parts… I understand.
If someone isn’t up for learning about all the pitfalls one can find when trying to adopt or relinquish, the negative stuff, then maybe they aren’t right for adoption. Not everyone is.
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 2:08 pm
It is obvious you didn’t really read my website. You read one article. Making judgements off one read is ignorant. And so is assumptions, one day you will learn better I am sure. You seem very young as well and your reading comprehension and those of your friends seems below par. Ironic considering you three keep blaming my reading. Stay small people.
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Beth
November 29, 2013 at 8:16 pm
How many international adoptees have you taken into your family and home to raise (it’s called “rehoming”) when their adopted parents decided to dump them because the kids are so messed up? So messed up and no one told them what to expect, they were told love and time will heal all. All they saw was cute bunnies and rainbows, refused to look at reality. But for some reason they give up anyway, I guess the rainbow power faded, they try to meet anyone that will take the kid and then they run like hell.
Some of the reasons the parents I knew gave up on a kid were… they killed their pets, physically and sexually abused other children in the house, tried to kill them in their sleep, smeared poop everywhere, and a host of other uncomfortable, dangerous and embarrassing things.
There are plenty of foster children waiting for you to come save them, they have been passed from family to family, unadoptable, if you really want to help maybe you could be their next home? I’ve helped more than my share, it’s someone else’s turn to help clean up this pro-adoption mess. I can refer them to you if you’d like to do your share?
Have you started a group home for these kids that are not able to be in a typical “family” setting yet? A new orphanage for them, just in a different country?? Or would you rather see them stay in the home that is not capable of caring for them properly, because it is a “forever” family home and they were adopted? I can send you an address to send your donations to the one we’ve opened – if you are not up to starting one on your own. Do you do anything to support your fellow Korean adoptees that can’t be helped by a typical loving family?
Even my pro-adoption church has stopped pushing adoption, the call to adopt. just in this tiny little church corner of the world dozens of adoptions have gone sooo so wrong here for dozens of families. And it’s ruined the church! It’s simply not right for everyone, especially when kids with severe problems are being sent over with Grade A healthy stamps, when they are not.
Many families I know have been ruined because of the lack of disclosure that is so common in international adoption and adoption from foster care. Why would anyone encourage someone they don’t know is able to care for a child with such issues to adopt this child, a child they know nothing about?
Have you counseled adoptive families and their children? Have you talked and talked for hours trying to get them not to disrupt the adoption and sell the kid on the internet? Have you experienced anything like that?
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 10:41 pm
So you have started a new orphanage in a new country yourself Beth? Or just donated money? You were vague.. On purpose?
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cb
November 29, 2013 at 11:57 pm
This is the sort of organisation I support:
http://www.childsifoundation.org/our-projects/malaika-care/
Starting an orphanage in a new country? I’d rather help prevent children from ending up in orphanages in the first place.
http://www.replace-campaign.org/
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 10:42 pm
Yes I donate and my family donates to orphaned for Koreans and internationals through Holt.
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 10:42 pm
We encourage people to take kids with unknown issues because it is the right thing, your church sounds lovely…
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 11:01 pm
What did you put a few bricks together for habitat for humanity and that makes you some kind of expert on adoption? Don’t make me laugh Beth.
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Beth
November 29, 2013 at 8:38 pm
Well of course we are blaming your reading skills. It’s totally obvious to everyone that you didn’t read everything, or your reading comprehension isn’t the greatest. Could be your lack of life experience or maybe it’s just your un-educated opinion getting in the way, who knows? If all you can come up with are insults to protect your opinion, and a goodbye…. yawn, it’s like talking to opinionated little boys. You’re not contributing much here, we are getting bored.
Oh, I almost forgot! I feel very young, thanks for the compliment! 🙂
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 10:32 pm
Sounds like a horrible church. I am glad I don’t go there. Take care doing so much which btw you are very good at being vague about what you really have done and what you are “referring” me to. I can see you all think highly of yourself. I find you three to be very small minded, I hope they managed to keep you all together. Bye.
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 10:33 pm
I liked the “yawn” btw and the “Lols” it was talking to an opinionated little girl.
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Opinionated Man
November 29, 2013 at 10:44 pm
I broke my responses up since you aren’t able to comprehend anything past a certain length apparently.
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Beth
November 29, 2013 at 7:52 pm
I’ll try to keep it simple for you. I am sure the load of information people are trying to share with you is a bit much to swallow all at once. So, one thing at a time.
Do you do anything to support your fellow US Citizen adoptees in obtaining their original record of birth? Are you active in trying to change ancient, proven harmful, laws regarding adoption? Are you interested in helping adoptees?
Or are you pro-slavery?
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TAO
November 29, 2013 at 11:13 pm
I’ve just about had enough and when I reach a certain point comments will be closed without further notice.
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Beth
November 30, 2013 at 12:39 pm
Thanks TAO.
They all have to go back to school Monday, hopefully.
Happy Thanksgiving 🙂
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